Minutes of Meeting - 4th April 2003
NOTTS COUNTY SUPPORTERS TRUST
MEMBERS FORUM MINUTES
|
Forum No. |
1 |
| Date |
Wednesday 21st May 2003 |
| Time |
7.40pm |
| Venue |
The Oriental Suite, Notts County FC, Meadow Lane,
Nottingham. |
Panel:
Mark Durkin – Treasurer (Interim Trust Board)
Simon Binns – Supporters Direct
John Thornhill – Chair (Interim Trust Board)
Paul Finnity – Administrator (Notts County FC) (joined later)
Keri Usherwood – (Interim Trust Board)
Master of Ceremonies:
Trevor Woolley
Approximately 140 members were present.
- Trevor Woolley opened the meeting by welcoming those present and outlining
the agenda for the evening. Trevor introduced the panel and told the meeting
that questions on any subject could be asked. Questions could also be passed
to Trust interim board members during the break.
- John Thornhill told the meeting that he wouldn’t speak for long as it was
important that members’ questions were answered. John outlined the current
situation at the club.
There are now a total of three bids for the club, although one is a
restructure of an earlier bid. There are two main bids, Albert Scardino/Quintain
and Frank Strang/Raj Bhatia.
Paul Finnity has to get the best deal for the creditors. Only the
Strang/Bhatia bid will be put to the creditors meeting by Mr Finnity. Under
Football League rules a CVA (Company Voluntary Agreement) is required to be
approved by creditors. 75% of the creditors by debt are required to approve
it.
Very little is known about Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia, other than they are
successful businessmen. The City Council have vetted them; they have taken
bank references and seem happy with them. Paul Finnity has done similar
checks.
The Trust board has asked Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia a series of in-depth
questions. At this point John Thornhill read out (verbatim) the reply received
from Mr Sam McEwan. Mr McEwan is the spokesman for Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia.
John Thornhill has also had a telephone conversation with Mr McEwan in which
he made a number of statements but gave no details. It is a positive thing
that they are still talking to the Trust.
The Strang/Bhatia bid will be proposed to the creditors, it is likely that
Albert Scardino/Quintain will try to block it.
In conclusion John told the meeting that the Trust will remain independent and
will not back one of the bids over another. The Trust will continue to
represent the views of its members and will continue to work with the
administrator.
- Questions were taken from members.
- Question 1: Regarding Mr Finnity’s fee, is it a fixed fee or has he
been trying to make money by taking extra time?
(Mr Finnity had not joined the meeting at this stage).
John Thornhill said that the administrators fees are regulated and Mr Finnity
claims to be cheaper that administrators at other clubs. The total fees,
including legal costs, is £485,000. The cost was more at Port Vale, Ipswich
and Leicester. The Leicester administration cost £1million for 35 days work.
Mark Durkin gave a breakdown of the fees. The administrators fee was £370,000.
Simon Binns said that different administrators have different methods. He had
never known an administrator string things out.
- Question 2: What was the situation with Danny Allsopp, was Billy
Dearden consulted?
John Thornhill said that this had been a bit of a mess. There had been mis-communication
between Sam McEwan and Raj Bhatia. Billy Dearden was upset with Peter Taylor
because he had not been contacted by him about the transfer, which is against
common practice.
- Question 3: We have head a lot about the Strang/Bhatia bid, what
about the Scardino bid?
John Thornhill said that the Scardino/Quintain bid is not as much money as the
Strang/Bhatia bid.
The main difference is that Scardino/Quintain will deal with the West Stand
separately with Derek Pavis. The West Stand is included in the Strang/Bhatia
bid. The City Council have said they have reservations about this. It is
unlikely that Mr Scardino will give up.
- Question 4: Is Mr Bhatia from Nottingham? Is there a connection
with the Bhatia/Best legal firm?
No.
- Question 5: With reference to the Scardino bid, he had ripped
people off and was using someone else’s bid. Will the Trust ever trust him?
John Thornhill said that the Trust had concerns over the previous two years,
there had clearly been poor management of the club and there is an obvious
credibility problem with Scardino. John Thornhill had asked Albert Scardino
how he would deal with this and his reply was ‘I can only try and get it right
this time’.
The decision will be made by the creditors. The Trust will remain independent
and will work with the new owners. The Trust will reflect members concerns and
put them to Mr Finnity.
- Question 6: What is known about the third bid, and what money does
Mr Scardino have for Billy Deardon?
John Thornhill said that the third bid was from a company called Vantis, it
was a restructure of the Doug Ward bid. They were behind the other bids, the
amounts involved are not known. Paul Finnity is reported as saying that thy
have many hurdles to cross. As with all the bids, there won’t be large amounts
of money to be put in. We are not aware of the amounts. The City Council has
criteria for these matters, including a contract for the team manager. Both
the Scardino/Quintain and the Strang/Bhatia bids have satisfied the City
Council in this respect.
At this point Paul Finnity joined the meeting.
- Question 7: What happens if there is no agreement at the creditors
meeting?
Simon Binns said that he has spoken to the League, there will be contingency
plans. The League could not afford another PR disaster. Flexibility was needed
from the League but they will want action.
Paul Finnity said that he was hopeful that the bid will be approved. If there
was a vote against it was anybody’s guess what would happen.
Keri Usherwood said that the Trust did not have a lot of control over this.
However if there was no agreement, we will start a campaign with the Football
League to extend the deadline.
Paul Finnity said that if the company was not a football club he could sell it
to anyone. The Football League require that there be a creditors agreement. If
there is a deadlock he will explore with the League the possibility of selling
to who he wants to.
- Question 8: The question about fees (Question 1) was put to Mr
Finnity.
Mr Finnity said that he had had 11 difficult months. He had to negotiate
between the previous chairman and the acting chairman. This was not the reason
the acting chairman’s previous backer went away as had been reported. It has
taken until Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia came in for everyone to realise what was
required. They have been a breath of fresh air. In no way has he been
stringing out the process. He has had to take serious risks for the club,
which we don’t know about. £370,000 was not unreasonable for 11 months.
- Question 9: For Paul Finnity, who runs insolvency law in this
country, the Football League or the EEC?
Paul Finnity said that the Football League had to protect the other 71 clubs.
The clubs’ share in the Football League and FA was valuable, in order to keep
the shares the club has to pay its debts to other clubs, it is being held to
ransom.
Questioner: The Football League doesn’t set the law in this country.
Paul Finnity said it was out of his control, he doesn’t agree with it but his
hands are tied.
Simon Binns said that the Government runs the country and the FA/Football
League runs football. The Government won’t get involved. The Football League
rules say that it has to own 5% of each club. The Government did not get
involved in the Cricket World Cup, this was left to the governing bodies.
- Question 10: We hope that the CVA goes through, if it doesn’t can
Paul Finnity put another bid to them?
Paul Finnity said that there were alternatives in the agreement, but that the
Football League will not allow them.
Questioner: Is it true, as the Nottingham Evening Post claims, that now the
players debit is included, Albert Scardino does not have enough to stop the
bid?
Paul Finnity said that Notts Holdings has less than 25% of the debt, but only
if all other creditors vote against it. Not all of the creditors may turn up
to vote.
At this point there was a 15 minute break.
- Question 11: John Armstrong-Holmes said that he wanted to speak to
retract a few things. He now wanted to acknowledge that John Thornhill has the
best interests of the Trust and Notts County Football Club at heart. Also he
said that Paul Finnity had done an exceptional job with the Bhatia/Strang bid.
It was sad that other people had come forward latter. The Bhatia/Strang bid
was the best thing for Notts County Football Club. What Paul Finnity has done
is incredible, people should support the Bhatia/Strang bid.
- Question 12: There has been a report in the Strathspey Herald that
Mr Strang wants to move the club to a shared ground, is this true?
Paul Finnity said that he was aware of the business plan of Mr. Strang and Mr.
Bhatia and this was apparently not in it. Their business plan was for the next
10 years. He has not spoken to this newspaper, despite being quoted. The story
was very similar to one that has appeared in Soccer Investor magazine, it may
have originated from another bidder.
Carole Stapleton asked Mr Finnity if there was any difference between the two
bids in this respect.
Paul Finnity said that the Bhatia/Strang bid assumes no move from Meadow Lane.
All the bids are for the assets of the club.
John Thornhill said that the ground share issue has been discussed in
Nottingham for a long time. There are some people in Nottingham who would like
to see this happen. He has asked the editor of the newspaper about this story.
The editor says that the comments in question were made by Mr Strang in an
interview on 12th May.
It is important that Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia speak to the supporters and the
Trust.
Keri Usherwood said that Mr Strang had denied making these remarks. The Trust
will have a say in the club in the future, we will not let the same mistakes
happen again.
- Question 13: In the event that the Football League kicks us out,
what plans do the Trust have?
Keri Usherwood said that the Trust interim board has been seriously worried
about this. He has been working with Simon Binns from Supporters Direct and
David Hindley (a Trust interim board member) to look at alternatives. It was
difficult to say exactly what might happen before the creditors meeting is
held. The Trust will not let the club die.
John Thornhill said that there had been conversations with Paul Finnity about
this. Paul Finnity will speak to us if this happens. The Trust will be there
as a back stop.
Paul Finnity said that the deadline could probably be extended if something
positive was happening. He could not let the club go past June with no money
coming in. Somebody will need to come forward with some money at this point.
- Question 14: With so many clubs in administration will the FA make
an example of us?
Simon Binns said that it was the Football League who make the rules for Notts
County. When the announcement was made they had had a bad week with their
Leicester and Wimbledon decisions. They wanted to make an example of someone
and Notts County wandered into the firing line. The deadline may be extended.
Paul Finnity said that the Football League is misguided in their views on
administration. They do not appear to fully understand the issues surrounding
insolvency. They have taken money out of the club to pay other clubs. He has
had to take risks in the running of the club. The club can survive following
the creditors meeting, if it does not it will be for an oddball reason.
- Question 15: How much are the creditors being offered? How big is
the black hole in the finances next year? As Mr Storrie has said his gamble
failed, will Mr Finnity want be the administrator at Portsmouth?
Paul Finnity said that the bank will be paid in full. The Inland Revenue will
get nearer 33p in the pound. Certain football creditors have been paid and
others will on a successful takeover.
Mr Bhatia and Mr Strang have accounted for the worse case scenario in their
business plan.
Notts County is the only club he will be the administrator of.
- Question 16: How many members does the Trust have and is the number
still rising?
Mark Durkin said that the membership figure was changing day by day. There was
over 1000 members, approximately 1050. 12 people have joined at this meeting.
Questioner: After the Strang/Bhatia takeover will the Trust continue to seek
involvement in the board room?
John Thornhill said yes, the Trust will continue to do this. We cannot allow
this situation to happen again.
- Question 17: What is the motivation of Mr Bhatia and Mr Strang? The
preferred creditors are being offered 11p and not 33p in the pound.
Paul Finnity said that it was 11p if there were no player sales and 33p if
there were player sales. By the time of the creditors meeting it will be
closer to 33p. Player sales include sales to the potential bidders.
John Thornhill said that there was no question on motivation for all bidders,
it is the potential to develop the property. The only asset is the new lease.
The Trust will have to ask Mr Bhatia and Mr Strang how they plan to reconcile
this with the running of the football club. No money can be made from the
football club alone. The new lease is for property development.
- Question 18: Can you clarify what area of land is included in the
lease?
Paul Finnity said that the old lease said that all 7 acres must be used for
football. The new lease says that it must be 2 acres and at least a 10,000
seater stadium. No extra land is included. Football must be played at Meadow
Lane.
- Question 19: How soon at after the creditors vote will be know the
outcome?
Paul Finnity said if it all works out well, the sale will be made on the same
day or it may be a couple of days later. He wants everything completed in time
for the Football League meeting on 4th June.
John Thornhill said that the Trust will have someone at the meeting.
- Question 20: If there is only one bid, should we vote as a Trust on
it?
John Thornhill said that there could not be a vote tonight, that would need a
proper General Meeting. It was vital that the Trust remain independent in
order to work with the new owners whoever they are.
- Question 21: Should the sale go through what will Mr Scardino’s
position be? Could he still be the chairman?
Paul Finnity said that it will be a new company with new directors. The old
directors will not be part of it, they will have no status.
- Question 22: If creditors vote against the CVA does the club cease
to exist?
Paul Finnity said that this was a possibility unless there was another
deadline extension from the Football League.
- Question 23: If Mr Scardino does take over the club, could the club
afford to pay £250,000 to his backers in rent?
Paul Finnity said possibly not, but this was not really a matter for him.
- Question 24: From what the Trust knows about Mr Strang and Mr
Bhatia, are they happy to work with the Trust?
John Thornhill said that they have made statements about this. The City
Council will also push for this. The Trust is recognised as important. However
so far it has been difficult to get to talk to them.
Paul Finnity said that it looks like Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia can take the club
forward.
John Thornhill said that Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia could provide us with more
information, the Trust will continue to press them on this.
- Question 25: Could the Trust ask Mr Strang and Mr Bhatia if they
takeover to give season tickets to the people who had previously paid for five
years? This would be a nice gesture.
John Thornhill said the Trust would look into this.
- Question 26: Sandra Lakin spoke. She wanted to thank people who
signed her petition for the new owners.
- Trevor Woolley thanked the panel and everyone for attending.
The meeting closed at 9:40pm.
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